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Curious and Curiouser Podcast

Apr 25, 2018

How do you recognize your role in an unhealthy relationship dynamic? This is the question Tracey and Cayly are asking on this week’s episode of Curious and Curiouser. Using the framework of the drama triangle — a social model originally conceived by Psychologist Stephen Karpman — Tracey and Cayly talk about how to recognize when you’re falling into an unhealthy relationship dynamic, identify which role you are playing, and start moving towards a healthier version of that role.


Tracey and Cayly also talk about which roles they tend towards and their personal experiences of how recognizing these patterns in themselves and their relationships has shifted the way they interact with the people they love.


This conversation is good, y’all. And full of useful tools you can start using right away in your life. Tracey and Cayly sincerely hope you find it helpful!


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Highlights from this episode:


- The drama triangle:  Persecutor, Rescuer, Victim

- Therapist Uncensored (

- Tracey’s diagram about the drama triangle

- How do these roles show up in relationships between two people?

- What roles have Tracey and Cayly played in their lives most often?

- Can we play different roles in different relationships?

- The healthier version of each of these three roles:  Challenger, Coach, Creator

- What does it take to move to towards the healthier versions?

- Can a relationship survive if one person moves towards the healthier version and the other doesn’t?

- How codependency and boundaries intersect with the drama triangle

- How this can play out between parents and their children, especially victim (child) and rescuer (parent)

- What happens when adult children grow in emotional maturity beyond where their parents are

- Adult Children of Emotional Immature Parents (

- Which of these roles is least likely to move towards health?

- What do the more healthy roles look like? What’s the difference between the coach and the challenger?

- How this drama triangle can show up in therapeutic relationships

- Why we’re both skeptical of anyone who claims to have the answer

- Tracey’s experience with Landmark Forum (

- How growing up in the Mormon church has shaped Cayly’s skepticism

- And more!



Piquing Our Curiosity:


Dating Radar:  Why Your Brain Says Yes to “The One” Who Will Make Your Life Hell ( by Bill Eddy and Megan Hunter. Tracey love this book and recommends it often. It offers tips for recognizing red flags and warning signs in relationships, helping you avoid toxic relationships with high conflict people. Find it here ( on Amazon.